If you're a returning reader and, specifically, a long time reader of this site, then you'll know that I am a pretty big fan of Ariel Helwani and all of the content that he's been putting out since I started following the sport in a more detailed way. He is one of the reasons that I wanted to start doing this myself. I don't anticipate ever doing this full time, but you never know I guess. You'll also know that, for the most part, I don't particularly write my posts directly in response to someone else's content. I know for a fact that I did it once about a Chael Sonnen video, but I'm not sure which one it was. I think it might have been Kevin Holland vs Nick Diaz rumors that he started. I know I mention his videos and some of Ariel's interviews here and there, but I don't normally center my post around those topics. I know I mentioned Chael's video when he was talking about a potential Paddy Pimblett vs Cowboy Cerrone fight as well. I also mention Michael Chandler's interview with Ariel after he fought Justin Gaethje quite a bit as well. Maybe I have made targeted posts more than that, but they're not coming to mind at the moment. With that said, I have to write about this because there was just so much going on. If you didn't see it, Pat Berry made an appearance on last Wednesday's (May 11) episode of The MMA Hour. I'm going to be talking about a lot of the points he made in this post and I would highly recommend that you watch the full intreview (here) to gain full context of his comments. I'm not going to just be summarizing what he said and I won't cover every single subject and comment, so if you want the full thing with all of the details, give it a listen.
Let's start with the basics just so we're all on the same page. Pat Berry is a former kick boxer and MMA fighter, who spent most of his MMA days inside the UFC. He had a solid career, but wasn't really anything out of the ordinary. His most notable moment was a chaotic first round in a main event fight against Cheick Kongo where Barry dropped Kongo several times in the early going. Kongo somehow managed to survive enough that the referee didn't stop the fight and eventually worked his way back to his feet, where he knocked Barry out cold with only a couple of punches. You've probably seen the highlight before even if you don't recognize the names. Anyways, Pat stopped competing several years ago now and has since taken up coaching. He is one of the two main coaches for former UFC strawweight champion Rose Namajunas. In addition to being half of her main coaching staff (along with Trevor Wittman) he is also her long time boyfriend and they've been engaged for several years now. That will come into play later. I am going to operate under the assumption that you all saw the rather uneventful strawweight championship fight a few weeks ago at UFC 274 that saw Rose lose her title to Carla Esparza. Rose employed a very unique strategy where she wanted to keep distance and instead focused on stopping Esparza's wrestling, but that came at the detriment of her own offense. Rose ended up not throwing nearly enough of her own strikes and ended up losing what was a very winnable decision. At one point during the fight, the audio picked up Barry telling Rose something to the extent of "listen to them (the fans) booing, that means you're doing the right thing". That comment combined with the unusual strategy made for great reason for Ariel to have Barry on the show and when he announced it the morning of, I was as excited to hear as I had been for any guest that I can remember. Based on how weird the fight was, I guess I should have expected a weird interview, but what he said caught me really off guard.
The first thing that I thought was really weird is that he was being vague to an extreme and almost bizarre level. Fighters not revealing details about their game plan or strategy even after the fact isn't an uncommon occurrence. For him to not want to reveal the specifics of what they were trying to do just incase Rose were to fight Carla again is a pretty reasonable thing for the most part in my estimation. What was so weird about it is that he wanted to reference particular cues or strategies without actually saying what they were, which made for an interview that was unnecessarily complicated. He kept referencing this one "thing" Rose was looking to do during the fight, but just couldn't land it. Now, if he would've just done this once, I think it still would have been fine. He could have just said "hey, there was this one thing we were looking to do but we just couldn't execute it the way we planned" and he wouldn't have revealed it, but still answered the question in a thoughtful way. What made it weird was that he kept referencing "the thing" over and over again. It made for an awkward (and extremely long winded) answer because he kept talking about "the thing" without ever actually telling us what he was talking about. It ended up being a long answer about nothing because he wanted to defend their strategy and talk about how great their game plan was, but didn't want to actually reveal the details of what that was. It almost made it seem like their was no game plan and he used the idea of keeping it secret to cover for not actually having one. Note: I'm not actually dumb enough to think they didn't have a plan, it was just the way he was almost speaking in code made it seem like he was hiding something. Part of the plan that he did reveal was that they planned on knocking Carla out in the very first round. That statement really didn't compute because I'm not sure how Rose's strategy was to knock out Carla, but that led her to only landing 4 total strikes. If the plan was to knock someone out quickly, I would assume the fighter would be aggressive and force the issue, but I'm not an MMA coach, so I'll defer to his expertise in the field. The final thing about the strategy specifically that I wanted to talk about goes back to "the thing". I'll admit that this one is up to the way I personally interpreted his answer, so if I'm missing something, let me know in the comments. When Barry was going on and on about "the thing" he seemed to me like he was implying that their was a specific strike or attack that Rose was looking to land that would put an immediate end to the fight. This was something that really just didn't make much sense to me. It isn't that Rose doesn't have power or that she couldn't land a head kick knockout again like she did against Zhang Weili, but was that really the plan? As in the whole strategy to win the entire fight was to land a high kick knockout or land one overhand right and put her out like Rose is Francis Ngannou? Women's MMA already has fewer finishes than the men do and the lower weight classes (men or women) have fewer finishes than the heavier divisions. Combine both of those and it is a recipe for a fight that is more likely to go to decision than the average fight. On top of that, Rose isn't even really a known finisher. She's only finished three wins since 2017 and one was a submission against Michelle Waterson and she wasn't going to submit a significantly better grappler in Esparza. That leaves us with two possible options: The first is that this was the actual strategy and the second was that Barry lied about it during the interview. I see no reason for him to come on Ariel's show and lie, but at the same time, I don't see how people who have been around MMA their entire lives would have signed off on a strategy where Rose tried to win a slow paced, striking battle like she's Derrick Lewis. Trevor Wittman is the coach of the year and I can't fathom a scenario where he would have thought that was a good idea. I've said this multiple times before, but there's always a part of me that feels weird when it comes to critiquing coaches or fighters because it isn't like I'm really qualified to do so. I've never fought or even been inside an MMA gym. Most of what I know is based off of listening to the broadcast and actual fighters talking about the sport. However, I can't imagine that anyone who has been around this sport for any meaningful amount of time would say that what Rose did in that fight was a good strategy. While I don't personally think trying to win a slow paced striking affair was the best route for Rose to go, that isn't my main critique. I don't think it was the right thing, but I'll leave the real opinions on that to come from guys like Dan Hardy and other people who really break down fights at an extremely detailed level. The real issue I had was with the way he chose to articulate himself. Had he come on and explained what happened in a normal way, I think the ideas the audience would walk away with would be a lot more positive. However, he chose to be super protective of a strategy that didn't work and did so in a way that added a very odd overtone to the entire interview.
The next part I want to talk about is what I'll call some philosophical things that he mentioned. The first thing that I'll put into this category is the story he told about a sparring session that Rose had before having a zoom meeting with her family. Pat went on about how Rose has this tendency to stray from the game plan for brief moments in fights and how it costs her. He brought up both of her fights against Jessica Andrade as examples. In their first fight, he said Rose went against the game plan for a stretch and it is ultimately what led to the sequence of her being picked up and slammed to the mat to give Andrade the TKO victory. In their second fight, he said Rose diverged from the game plan and started to brawl more than they wanted and that led to Andrade being able to hit Rose more and caused her to have damage done to her nose and a bad cut under her eye. All of that stuff made sense to me. He went on to say that a big part of the training camp for this fight was to avoid that situation. They wanted to stress staying in control and sticking to the plan and listening to the corner without any freelancing. This part is still all fine. He uses this in reference to the part of the broadcast where, right before the fifth round, we could hear Trevor Wittman saying something like "put a stamp on it" and telling Rose to really go out there and make it clear that she won. Obviously, Rose didn't really do that and stuck to doing basically nothing like she did the first four rounds. Pat said that when they were telling her this between rounds, he could see a look in Rose's eye that suggested that she wasn't going to listen. He said that he could see in her face that she was thinking "no, no, no. This is a trick. I'm going to stick to the game plan" (quotes are to simulate thought, not his exact words for full transparency). Obviously, Rose having coachability concerns could be an issue if she either doesn't trust them enough to follow their instruction or just straight up doesn't listen to them, but I want to take it a step further. I don't know if they actually had a conversation about it or if it was just Pat theorizing, but if Rose actually thought during the fight that her coaches were trying to trick her into doing something then you probably don't need me to explain why that is an issue. I'm not sure exactly what Pat wanted us to take away from that comment, but out of all the possibilities, I don't think any of them are positive. He eventually circles back to this sparring session that Rose had and she was doing really well until the very end when she ducked down into a knee from her partner and it caught her in the eye. He said that it caused her eye to swell up pretty badly. When she got home to get on the zoom call with her family, they apparently were concerned (as most would be if you saw your family member with a swollen face) and kept asking her why she still fights and when she was going to stop. As Pat explains, this was a very important moment in Rose's life and is something that stuck with her. Because this title fight was so close to Mother's Day, Pat said that Rose didn't want to have a bruised face whenever she talked to her family, so it was very important that she avoid damage. Now, believe when I say that I fully understand not wanting to look beat up for family events and gatherings because I most certainly do. However, I'm also not a professional cage fighter. If someone is in a state of mind going into a title defense that the most important thing for them to do is avoiding being hit so they don't look bruised on a Facetime with their mom, I don't think that is a good thing. This part I 100% believe because Rose fought like she was trying to avoid damage at all cost. She refused to engage at all and didn't get any of her own offense off at all. Defending the takedowns was an important part of the fight for her, but it was still only part. The criteria doesn't allow you to win a fight based on your defensive performance. As much as I understand it, I just don't think this is a good mindset for a fighter to have and Rose definitely needs some time to reset if this is indeed the case. The last thing that I want to include in this section was probably the most jarring thing I heard in the entire interview. I promise that I am not making this up or exaggerating in any way. Pat again was referencing "the thing" that Rose was looking for and he said that the opportunity to execute it happened three times over the course of the fight and Rose slipped when she went to do it all three times. He said that Rose is a very spiritual woman and that he knows he has to be respectful of that when he's coaching her. He goes on to say that after she slipped trying to execute whatever technique "the thing" was for the second time, he made eye contact with Rose and shook his head "no" in order to indicate to her that there was something preventing her from landing "the thing" and winning the fight. I kid you not. A coach, in the premier MMA organization in the world, signaled to their fighter mid round in a championship fight to alert them that a spiritual force beyond their control had determined that she is going to lose this fight and was causing her to slip so that she couldn't land "the thing". I speak no hyperbole when I say that this is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in awhile, at least when it comes to MMA. I'm not a particularly religious man, but I think I'm a pretty open minded guy and respect whatever belief system someone chooses to have. I mean no disrespect to Rose and her family when I discuss this subject. If she believes that something is out there effecting the outcomes of MMA fights then it is her prerogative to do so. However, I don't think relaying that information mid round is a smart thing. Having Rose take her focus off of Carla to make eye contact with Pat for anything doesn't sound like a particularly great idea. To do it so that you can tell her that she has no chance to win a fight that she is actively in sounds dangerous. Where this really takes a turn is that Pat said that this force had predetermined that Rose wouldn't win the fight, but then he goes on to say that he thought she was up 4 rounds to 0 going into the fifth. I'm not sure how she could be a predetermined loser of the fight, but he could also think she won. I'll get more into that at the very end though.
The next thing I want to talk about is one of the brief moments that Rose stepped into the interview. Rose walked through the back of the camera shot at different times, while she was doing laundry and stopped to contribute to some questions at times. I honestly don't even remember what the question was, but she was explaining how she had a set of goals for this fight and how she accomplished all of them. As someone who comes from a baseball background, I understand how you have to trust the process over results, but this just didn't seem like one of those times. I think what Rose was trying to get at is that she liked a lot of what she did even if it wasn't the result, but it wasn't articulated well and given the circumstances, was a bit of a weird response. It wasn't as if it was a hard fought, crazy split decision fight. She lost a split decision because she didn't do anything. I don't really know how many positives she could have taken away from that fight and what they could've been, but if she's happy with her performance then good for her because her happiness should be the only thing that matters to her. This ties into something that Pat Barry said multiple times throughout the interview. He kept saying that Rose went into this fight with a question that she needed answered, but he didn't know what that question was. However, what he does know is that Rose found the answer to whatever question she had. I don't really even know what I should fully think of this mindset or these comments, but there was so much more said that it really wasn't too notable. I get being process over results oriented to a point, but championship fights are very result based forms of competition. It would have made more sense had her process been correct, but it really doesn't seem like it was. She was so committed to this game plan that failed and both her and Pat are doubling and tripling down on it. It is just another troubling thing that came out in this interview.
The final part I want to keep brief because we don't have all the details. However, I feel like I do need to mention it to some degree. If you don't already know what I'm getting at, it is the details of the romantic relationship between Rose and Pat. I'm going to try my best as to present the information in a way that won't sway anyone's opinion to one side or the other because ultimately I don't know what really happened either. I'm just a guy. I have no sources. I'm not an insider by any definition. The way the story goes is that Rose met Pat at an MMA gym, which you probably could have guessed. When it comes to the gym where they met, Rose has said in interviews before that she started training there when she was 14 years old, which would be 15 years ago. 15 years ago, Pat Barry would have been 27 years old. I don't think I have to explain why a 27 year old man meeting a 14 year old girl and then going on to have a romantic relationship with her is a problem. However, Rose says that this is leaving out critical details. She said that yes, she did start training at that gym when she was 14, but then she left to train at other gyms before returning. It was only upon her return to the gym, after she was 18, that they met and began their relationship. What was really odd to me is that when Ariel asked Pat if he wanted to clear things up, Pat said he didn't care because there was no point and people were going to believe what they wanted. Now, he is partially right. Regardless of what he said, there would still be people who suspected wrong doing and there is nothing he could do about that. However, if someone were to accuse me of doing what he is being accused of, I feel like I would deny it a little more aggressively and do everything I could to get the truth out there. Instead, Pat Barry, upon being accused of grooming a young girl, simply shrugs his shoulders and says that people can believe what they want. I'm not saying he did anything wrong because I have no idea. He and Rose know the truth and I assume there are other people who were at the gym that know as well. I just find it to be a very odd response to have those accusations looming over your relationship off and on for years and not speaking out against them in a very definitive manner when given the opportunity to do so. Instead, they both just echoed the response that their families approve of their relationship and are happy with it. Just because their families approve doesn't inherently prove that what is being alleged isn't true. It isn't an either/or proposition. I'm going to leave that part at that though. I can't speculate because I wasn't there and don't know anyone who was. I just have to take their word for it because I have nothing else until someone speaks up and actively opposes their story.
I guess my final conclusion is that this interview was very, very strange. Pat Barry said multiple things that really stood out as not making very much sense in a concerning way. He really seems like he's just way too close to the situation to coach with a clear mind. I really don't mean to insult Pat or question is MMA acumen because he's lived this sport longer than I've even known it existed. There is just a reason that we don't see family members be a head coach for a fighter very often. They see things through a biased lens and this was an example of such. I said it before and I'll say it again: For him to tell Rose that she was up 4-0 going into the fifth is coaching malpractice. There is literally no way in the world that anyone else in the entire arena thought they knew what the score of that fight was going into the fifth round, but he thought she won every round? That is simply bad advice, there's no other way to put it. Despite him telling her she was up 4-0, there was some point in the fight where he made eye contact with Rose so that he could signal to her that super natural forces were preventing her from winning the fight. Whatever your beliefs are, I just don't think that is a positive coach/fighter relationship. I'm really looking for your guys feedback even more than usual on this one. What do you guys think? What are we supposed to make of this interview? I'm really at a loss for words. Should Rose move to having only Wittman in her corner on fight nights? What points did you pick up on that I missed? Leave your thoughts and comments below. Thanks for reading and have a good one.
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